Media Collection "Interview Henry Greenbaum 2014"
AGFl_0188
Video 00:44:39
07/19/2014
Weiden in der Oberpfalz
Weiden in der Oberpfalz
Stadt Starachowice
Wierzbnik-Starachowice Ghetto
Auschwitz Concentration Camp
Auschwitz III Monowitz Concentration Camp
Auschwitz II Birkenau Concentration Camp
Stadt Neunburg vorm Wald
Bergen-Belsen Concentration Camp
Vilna Ghetto
Stadt Łódź
Stadt Frankfurt am Main
DP-Camp Zeilsheim
Stadt Washington D.C.
Stadt New York
Flossenbürg Concentration Camp
Zwangsarbeiterlager Majówka
Wierzbnik-Starachowice Ghetto
Auschwitz Concentration Camp
Auschwitz III Monowitz Concentration Camp
Auschwitz II Birkenau Concentration Camp
Stadt Neunburg vorm Wald
Bergen-Belsen Concentration Camp
Vilna Ghetto
Stadt Łódź
Stadt Frankfurt am Main
DP-Camp Zeilsheim
Stadt Washington D.C.
Stadt New York
Flossenbürg Concentration Camp
Zwangsarbeiterlager Majówka
Interview with concentration camp survivor Henry Greenbaum
- Hoffnung auf einen Neuanfang bei der Schwester in Amerika - Suche nach Familienangehörigen
- Aufenthalt im DP-Camp Zeilsheim und Wiedersehen mit dem Bruder - Kontaktaufnahme mit der Schwester in den USA und Emigration im Juni 1946
- Exkurs: Schicksal des älteren Bruders in Litauen und Wiedersehen in den USA
- Umgang mit dem Trauma: Arbeit als Zeitzeuge beim USHMM
- Umgang mit den Erinnerungen in der Familie und erste Rückkehr nach Flossenbürg
- Exkurs: Besuch des Roten Kreuzes und bessere Verpflegung für einen Tag - Bessere sanitäre Ausstattung in Flossenbürg als in anderen Lagern
- Wiederkehren von Erinnerungen bei Besuch des KZ Auschwitz und Interview von deutschem Fernsehsender
Originator/Copyright holder | Medienwerkstatt Franken |
---|---|
Source(s) | KZ-Gedenkstätte Flossenbürg / Medienwerkstatt Franken |
Usage conditions | Nur mit Einverständnis und Nennung von Archiv bzw. Urheber |
Display format | Interview, Rohmaterial |
Interviewer | Michael Aue |
Camera | Günter Wittmann |
Subtitles for "AGFl_AV.22.1094.mp4"
00:00:00 | IV: Heute ist Samstag, der 19. Juli 2014. |
00:00:04 | Wir sind in Weiden im Hotel Admira. |
00:00:06 | Mein Name ist Michael Aue von der Medienwerkstatt Franken. |
00:00:09 | Und ich führe jetzt ein Interview mit Herrn Henry Greenbaum, der in den USA lebt. |
00:00:14 | Er wurde am 1. April 1928 in Polen geboren. |
00:00:18 | Und zwar in dem Ort Starachowice. |
00:00:22 | Und äh, kam unter anderem, nach einem Auftenthalt in Auschwitz, auch nach Flossenbürg. |
00:00:30 | Und wurde auf dem Todesmarsch befreit. |
00:00:38 | IV: Well, so let's start ah a little bit ah just ah biographical.![]() |
00:00:44 | Where're you born?![]() |
00:00:46 | Ah, little bit about your family.![]() |
00:00:49 | So d.., just to know, where you are and where the story..![]() |
00:00:52 | HG: Okay.![]() |
00:00:52 | IV: ..started.![]() |
00:00:55 | HG: So you want me to talk?![]() |
00:00:56 | IV: Yeah, I want you to, to tell a little bit about your..![]() |
00:00:59 | HG: I thought you gonna just ask me questions {laughing}, okay.![]() |
00:01:02 | IV: Ah, yeah, so, just a.., my questions are there ah t.., to make you..![]() |
00:01:06 | HG: Okay.![]() |
00:01:07 | IV: ..talk {laughing}.![]() |
00:01:08 | HG: I c.., I come from a family of nine children.![]() |
00:01:11 | We had six girls and three boys.![]() |
00:01:15 | We were ah, I come from Poland.![]() |
00:01:18 | Ah and I was born April 1st 1928.![]() |
00:01:21 | I was the youngest of the nine children.![]() |
00:01:25 | And of course we had a normal upbringing.![]() |
00:01:27 | I went to public school.![]() |
00:01:29 | I went to Hebrew school.![]() |
00:01:31 | And play games with other children.![]() |
00:01:34 | Like a normal life.![]() |
00:01:36 | But of course, when the German army took over then it was a little bit different.![]() |
00:01:41 | They right away, it didn't take them too long.![]() |
00:01:43 | I don't know how long it was.![]() |
00:01:45 | We wound up in a ghetto in the old city, in Starochowice.![]() |
00:01:50 | We stayed in there for two years.![]() |
00:01:52 | From '40 to October '42 we stayed in the ghetto {clicking his tongue}.![]() |
00:01:58 | And then they decided to have a selection.![]() |
00:02:01 | They took, the selection was to take away the old, very young, handicapped, pregnant women, women with children.![]() |
00:02:10 | And ah all they left, able were the people for work.![]() |
00:02:15 | We, my family, we also had family's store in my town.![]() |
00:02:19 | We had IDs that we worked in the factories.![]() |
00:02:23 | I was not quite twelve years old.![]() |
00:02:26 | But I already worked in the ammunition factory.![]() |
00:02:30 | For the ah, for the Polish, ah, when they ordered.![]() |
00:02:34 | And when the German army came in, of course we had IDs so we were saved.![]() |
00:02:40 | And then they took those people away when they had the selection.![]() |
00:02:44 | They took them to Treblinka.![]() |
00:02:47 | Nothing but a killing center.![]() |
00:02:50 | My mum went there.![]() |
00:02:52 | My two married sisters went there with three ah little nieces and two nephews.![]() |
00:02:59 | They all were there, but I never could find them after the war.![]() |
00:03:03 | We were asking, looking for them. And they told us not to look for them, the, that they lost their lifes in Treblinka.![]() |
00:03:11 | IV: Treblinka {whispering}. One? So just, yeah, come in, come in.![]() |
00:03:17 | And the people who were able to work?![]() |
00:03:20 | HG: Okay, we stayed there and I was left with three single sisters.![]() |
00:03:25 | And we all had IDs that we work in the ammunition factory.![]() |
00:03:31 | In fact, the older one of the girls wound up in a tailor's shop.![]() |
00:03:36 | She ah because that was our business in...![]() |
00:03:39 | We had a tailor d..shop.![]() |
00:03:41 | So the girls knew how to sew.![]() |
00:03:43 | This one volunteered to be a tailor after and, after work in the ammunition factory.![]() |
00:03:50 | But the others, we worked, we came to work three shifts a day.![]() |
00:03:54 | Seven to three, from three to eleven, from eleven to seven in the morning.![]() |
00:04:01 | Every week changed the three shifts.![]() |
00:04:05 | And we were in this ghetto.![]() |
00:04:07 | And the ghetto, the only good thing in the ghetto is, the family was together, intact.![]() |
00:04:13 | But when they had the selection, of course, they broke up the family.![]() |
00:04:18 | My father died two months before the war.![]() |
00:04:21 | IV: Mhm {confirming}. And, so you stood in the ghetto at, but the..![]() |
00:04:25 | CM: Moment.![]() |
00:04:25 | IV: Yeah. Outside of the ghetto.![]() |
00:04:27 | HG: The work?![]() |
00:04:28 | IV: The, yeah, the work.![]() |
00:04:29 | HG: Ah, was outside the ghetto, right, it was a factory.![]() |
00:04:32 | Not to far away distant from the ghetto.![]() |
00:04:35 | We were able to walk every day.![]() |
00:04:38 | And the order was, that to come out of the ghetto, is the ones to show the guards the ID.![]() |
00:04:44 | And we were lining up for work.![]() |
00:04:46 | And all of us marched out at the same time.![]() |
00:04:48 | We came back at the same time.![]() |
00:04:51 | And we stayed there like I said till October '42.![]() |
00:04:55 | And then when they had the selection, after the selection they didn't return us to the ghetto.![]() |
00:05:02 | They built for us a slave labor camp.![]() |
00:05:05 | On the top of a stone quarry.![]() |
00:05:08 | With six foot fence wires, not electric just barbed wire.![]() |
00:05:14 | And the guards, and the dogs, and the tower.![]() |
00:05:17 | And they had floodlight.![]() |
00:05:19 | And we continued for another year to stay there.![]() |
00:05:22 | And we worked there.![]() |
00:05:23 | Then from the being, from the dirt, from the filth, we never changed our cloth.![]() |
00:05:29 | We never got washed.![]() |
00:05:31 | We became lice infested.![]() |
00:05:34 | And lice breed typhoid sickness.![]() |
00:05:38 | And that broke out while we were there in the slave labor camp.![]() |
00:05:42 | A very contagious sickness.![]() |
00:05:45 | And we were staying in such close quarters, like three guys slept on one bunk.![]() |
00:05:51 | Then maybe seventy-five inches wide.![]() |
00:05:53 | So, if one caught it, the next will definitely gonna catch it.![]() |
00:05:57 | But the only thing is if someone was, had high fever.![]() |
00:06:02 | That high, they could, you could do nothing.![]() |
00:06:04 | You couldn't even stand on your feet.![]() |
00:06:06 | Middle fewer, low fewer, you can go to work.![]() |
00:06:09 | You're slow a little bit, but you can go to work.![]() |
00:06:12 | But if you didn't line up for work, they went to look for the rest of them.![]() |
00:06:17 | Because every morning we lined up in the front of the barrack to send us off to work.![]() |
00:06:22 | If the night shift come back, they wouldn't let them in yet.![]() |
00:06:26 | Until they send the day shift out.![]() |
00:06:28 | So, if somebody was missing, they went inside the barrack to look for them.![]() |
00:06:34 | And if they found them, there was a pick-up truck.![]() |
00:06:37 | I think it was the Einsatzgruppen.![]() |
00:06:39 | I'm not sure.![]() |
00:06:40 | But it was a special unit who came by with a little truck.![]() |
00:06:43 | And they put the sick people and they took them away to the outskirt sort of town.![]() |
00:06:48 | They killed them there.![]() |
00:06:50 | And they all had one grave.![]() |
00:06:52 | And we dug those trenches for them, for the army, for the German army.![]() |
00:06:57 | And they told us that that was for the military, for the tanks to fall in.![]() |
00:07:04 | Whether theyy were six feet by four feet..![]() |
00:07:06 | I don't remember how deep we were digging.![]() |
00:07:09 | And they used those trenches for the people with typhoid.![]() |
00:07:12 | They shot them into the ditch, naked first.![]() |
00:07:16 | I didn't see it.![]() |
00:07:17 | I was not there.![]() |
00:07:18 | But I was told that ah people who investigated from the farmers around with, who were there.![]() |
00:07:24 | Because the farmers took the cloth.![]() |
00:07:27 | IV: Yeah.![]() |
00:07:27 | HG: And they shot them naked and throw, they went into the ditch.![]() |
00:07:31 | I lost a sister who died of typhoid.![]() |
00:07:34 | And then the old middle sister, they took her, she didn't line up for work.![]() |
00:07:39 | And we didn't know where they take those people.![]() |
00:07:43 | We thought they're taken for hospital.![]() |
00:07:45 | Or they take them to another, a ki.. o.. another camp or another ghetto.![]() |
00:07:51 | We didn't know what they were doing.![]() |
00:07:53 | Until after the war we found out.![]() |
00:07:56 | So at the end, I was left.![]() |
00:07:59 | One sister was, ah died of typhoid.![]() |
00:08:02 | And one the, I think it was the Einsatzgruppe that came to pick them up.![]() |
00:08:06 | Any barrack to barrack, it was ah, the truck was full.![]() |
00:08:10 | They would take them to the outskirts of the town.![]() |
00:08:12 | And they would shoot them there.![]() |
00:08:15 | And I lost two, so I had one more.![]() |
00:08:18 | So we heard rumors from the tailor shop.![]() |
00:08:22 | The high ranking officer came into the tailor shop and told those tailors to hurry up with those uniforms,![]() |
00:08:30 | "because such-and-such date all of you gonna be deported out of here."![]() |
00:08:37 | And it was already almost '44, 1944.![]() |
00:08:41 | IV: Yeah.![]() |
00:08:42 | HG: So these tailors didn't know what it meant, that we are gonna be deported.![]() |
00:08:47 | They thought, "they are gonna probably kill us and now they don't need us anymore."![]() |
00:08:50 | Although we helped them for three years with the war machinery.![]() |
00:08:54 | Whether it was a tailor or ammunition, what ever.![]() |
00:08:57 | And then, and then they decided that they came.![]() |
00:09:02 | And ah not everyone knew about the escape, just a few.![]() |
00:09:06 | Most of all the tailors.![]() |
00:09:08 | And then who their relatives were or friends.![]() |
00:09:12 | And they organized a certain group.![]() |
00:09:14 | And the day my sister that I had left over the one she had..![]() |
00:09:19 | A middle fewer, but she can go to work everyday.![]() |
00:09:22 | She told me the night before, when I come back from my shift, from the factory:![]() |
00:09:28 | "Do not go into the barrack.![]() |
00:09:30 | Wait for me outside."![]() |
00:09:33 | So I obeyed that order.![]() |
00:09:36 | And she came by to follow.. I had my shift from three to eleven.![]() |
00:09:39 | So I, I never went into the barrack.![]() |
00:09:41 | I stayed for her outside.![]() |
00:09:43 | And it was pitch-dark.![]() |
00:09:45 | She came by with a Jewish policeman.![]() |
00:09:48 | Whether she befriended him, I don't know the answer.![]() |
00:09:51 | She held us hands, her hand.![]() |
00:09:53 | And she grabbed my hand, all through we were running.![]() |
00:09:56 | And there was a, a barbed wire fence first.![]() |
00:10:00 | And the second fence was a wooden fence.![]() |
00:10:03 | When we came to the wooden fence to break it out, it made a little more noise than the clippers cut the wires.![]() |
00:10:10 | And the guards and the shepherd, shepherd dogs.![]() |
00:10:14 | Very alert, very alert dogs, they were growling and barking.![]() |
00:10:19 | So, the guard flipped the lights on, to see what was wrong.![]() |
00:10:23 | And they saw people were running out.![]() |
00:10:25 | And he just tried to kill as many as he could.![]() |
00:10:27 | Some wounded.![]() |
00:10:30 | And I was not, and I was about maybe ten feet away with the policeman and my sister.![]() |
00:10:36 | And once he put the lights on, he started shooting at us, too.![]() |
00:10:39 | We, and then that, the bullet grazed me on the back of my head.![]() |
00:10:44 | And knocked me out.![]() |
00:10:45 | When I awoke a few seconds later,![]() |
00:10:48 | I was yelling for my sister Faiga and I could not find her.![]() |
00:10:53 | And I never would run towards the hole, where they cut the hole out.![]() |
00:10:58 | So I decided to stay an.., and look for her.![]() |
00:11:02 | And I could not find her.![]() |
00:11:04 | But the women's barrack was in the opposite direction.![]() |
00:11:08 | Where the hole was cut through.![]() |
00:11:10 | So I decided to run for that.![]() |
00:11:12 | I lowered my head, bleeding furiously.![]() |
00:11:15 | And I ran there, and I came into the women's barrack.![]() |
00:11:18 | And the woman didn't let me in.![]() |
00:11:20 | It was a Jewish woman.![]() |
00:11:21 | From my town, she knew me and I knew her.![]() |
00:11:25 | She would not let me in.![]() |
00:11:27 | I said: "I wanna see my sister Fagia."![]() |
00:11:29 | "She is not here.![]() |
00:11:30 | Get out of here.![]() |
00:11:31 | You gonna get us all killed."![]() |
00:11:34 | I said: "How am I gonna get you killed?![]() |
00:11:36 | I have no weapons, how am I gonna kill you?"![]() |
00:11:38 | Anyway, we were fighting back and forth.![]() |
00:11:41 | I decided to sit in the doorway.![]() |
00:11:44 | And she could not close the door.![]() |
00:11:46 | And the guards upstairs on the tower were very angry that people were running out.![]() |
00:11:51 | And then, at one point they stopped running.![]() |
00:11:54 | And when they saw what's happening, the lights were up already.![]() |
00:11:57 | So they started shooting into the barracks.![]() |
00:12:00 | And they came in, a few bullets came into the barrack.![]() |
00:12:03 | And the women jumped off the bu.., the ah the bunks.![]() |
00:12:07 | And on the floor they went.![]() |
00:12:09 | Then I had eye contact with everyone of them, looking for my sister.![]() |
00:12:13 | I didn't believe the woman, told me my sister was not here.![]() |
00:12:17 | So I sits here and I ran into my first cousin Aida.![]() |
00:12:23 | They, her mum and my mum were sisters.![]() |
00:12:26 | She says: "What happened to you?"![]() |
00:12:27 | And I say: "I am looking for my sister Fagia."![]() |
00:12:30 | She says: "Your sister is not here.![]() |
00:12:32 | She is not here.![]() |
00:12:33 | I know what bunk she was on.![]() |
00:12:35 | She is not here.![]() |
00:12:37 | But what happened to you?"![]() |
00:12:39 | So I told her, I was injured, but I can't find my sister.![]() |
00:12:44 | So she said: "Let me help you with the bleeding."![]() |
00:12:46 | And then they stopped shooting anymore.![]() |
00:12:49 | So the woman, my cousin had a bucket of water, and, for everybody.![]() |
00:12:53 | And we were drinking that water every day in the barracks.![]() |
00:12:57 | So she wetted a rag, cleaned me up a little bit.![]() |
00:13:01 | And she took a dry rag and put it over the wound.![]() |
00:13:04 | She says: "I give you my beret.![]() |
00:13:06 | And you wear my beret."![]() |
00:13:08 | So the cloth would stay underneath.![]() |
00:13:10 | And ah, we had a lot of hair.![]() |
00:13:12 | They wouldn't cut our hair.![]() |
00:13:13 | And in the ghetto or the slave labor camp in the old town.![]() |
00:13:18 | So the women had their long hair.![]() |
00:13:20 | And the men had long hair.![]() |
00:13:21 | So that's why this lice infestation started.![]() |
00:13:25 | Mostly in the hair.![]() |
00:13:27 | And so then she just cleaned me up.![]() |
00:13:30 | And then, I still have to, I don't stay in there.![]() |
00:13:33 | What if the guards would catch me in there.![]() |
00:13:35 | They probably would have killed me.![]() |
00:13:37 | So I decided to sneak out of the women's barrack and I was watching the floodlights.![]() |
00:13:44 | It was all, it already got dark already.![]() |
00:13:46 | And the floodlight was going from the hall away and then back.![]() |
00:13:51 | Comes and goes, back and forth.![]() |
00:13:52 | And I figured out, I was fifteen years old that time already.![]() |
00:13:56 | And I said: "I can beat that ah the floodlight."![]() |
00:14:00 | Until for, starting of, running for this direction.![]() |
00:14:03 | And I lowered my head and I jumped.![]() |
00:14:06 | And I ran into my barrack where I belong with the men.![]() |
00:14:09 | And a few minutes later, the loudspeaker came on.![]() |
00:14:13 | All, everybody had to go "aus, raus."![]() |
00:14:15 | And we had to stay in the front of the barrack.![]() |
00:14:18 | The night shift just came back.![]() |
00:14:21 | They wouldn't let them in.![]() |
00:14:23 | They held them between these two sets of fences.![]() |
00:14:27 | And they started counting each of one in front of each barrack.![]() |
00:14:32 | Just to get some idea how many people escaped.![]() |
00:14:35 | So they were counting.![]() |
00:14:37 | And then there were missings.![]() |
00:14:38 | So that they would look inside for them, inside the barrack, they were not there.![]() |
00:14:43 | So that means either they're injured and lie at the hole over there or they escaped.![]() |
00:14:49 | And then after they get through counting of one of u.. ah each of us,![]() |
00:14:53 | we had to face the area where the hole was.![]() |
00:14:56 | And there he took his gun out.![]() |
00:14:58 | And he killed all the wounded people.![]() |
00:15:01 | (???)![]() |
00:15:02 | That were not killed.![]() |
00:15:03 | The policeman was one of them.![]() |
00:15:05 | He was sitting in an upright position on the ground.![]() |
00:15:08 | A white band he had.![]() |
00:15:10 | He wore his cap.![]() |
00:15:11 | The special police cap he had, mourning and groaning.![]() |
00:15:15 | He was hit by a bullet, I don't know where of course.![]() |
00:15:19 | And then others, he killed all of the wounded ones.![]() |
00:15:22 | The ones that were alive, breathing or yelling for help.![]() |
00:15:26 | They just shot all of them.![]() |
00:15:28 | And then he turned around to us.![]() |
00:15:30 | And he said: "That's what will happen to you, should you ever try to escape again."![]() |
00:15:35 | And we went back inside.![]() |
00:15:37 | And back to normal for a few, two, three months.![]() |
00:15:40 | And then, they decided that they, of sele..of, the deportation came.![]() |
00:15:47 | And we were all deported.![]() |
00:15:48 | They wouldn't let us go to work that twenty-four hour period.![]() |
00:15:51 | Everybody was in this slave labor camp.![]() |
00:15:54 | And they struck us on those trains.![]() |
00:15:57 | And they to.., they took us away.![]() |
00:15:59 | With no water, no bathroom for three, four days we traveled.![]() |
00:16:03 | At the end of the travelling, we wound up in Auschwitz-Birkenau.![]() |
00:16:10 | And the trains open up.![]() |
00:16:11 | The doors opened up.![]() |
00:16:13 | And the well dressed, the uniform guys, ah German army was standing there with their dog and they were directing traffic.![]() |
00:16:21 | Like ah, what the reason there was, I don't know.![]() |
00:16:24 | They had a selection again.![]() |
00:16:25 | Left, right, left, right.![]() |
00:16:28 | They sent me on the good side.![]() |
00:16:30 | And we, we didn't know what the other bad side is.![]() |
00:16:33 | Until a few days later.![]() |
00:16:35 | We were told by other inmates that that part of the group was gased the day they came.![]() |
00:16:41 | They either didn't have enough room for everyone.![]() |
00:16:45 | Or they had an order how many they need to dispose of.![]() |
00:16:48 | We were lucky.![]() |
00:16:49 | My, my group that was saved were lucky.![]() |
00:16:52 | The first thing we got is a number on our arm.![]() |
00:16:55 | The first thing.![]() |
00:16:57 | If I can open this up here.![]() |
00:16:59 | And I am glad to show you![]() |
00:17:01 | There is a number here: A, eighteen, nine, nine, one.![]() |
00:17:06 | That was my number.![]() |
00:17:08 | And by the way, I met a gentleman last night at the, at the Flossenbürg reunion there.![]() |
00:17:13 | He had his number here.![]() |
00:17:15 | And I think his number was pretty much close with mine.![]() |
00:17:19 | So we were there at the same, almost at the same time.![]() |
00:17:24 | So, we wound up here.![]() |
00:17:26 | We stayed only about a few months in Auschwitz-Birkenau.![]() |
00:17:30 | And a well... German man came in, a civilian.![]() |
00:17:34 | Well-dressed man.![]() |
00:17:36 | Well I, I admired his clothes.![]() |
00:17:38 | He had a, a straw hat.![]() |
00:17:40 | He had a three piece outfit, with a vest, a, a gold watch with a chain.![]() |
00:17:46 | That's how I observed that guy.![]() |
00:17:47 | That guy is still on my mind.![]() |
00:17:49 | Because he sort of saved my life.![]() |
00:17:51 | It was, we didn't know that.![]() |
00:17:53 | He ordered that barrack..![]() |
00:17:55 | He had two guards with him and a dog.![]() |
00:17:57 | And they, the guards went in.![]() |
00:17:58 | They chased everybody out of the barrack.![]() |
00:18:00 | And that civilian German picked who ever he want.![]() |
00:18:04 | But we didn't know what he is picking us for.![]() |
00:18:06 | He took, I don't know, approximately I would say fifty of us.![]() |
00:18:10 | And he marched us out of ah Birkenau-Auschwitz.![]() |
00:18:15 | Either by truck or by foot, I don't remember it positively.![]() |
00:18:19 | And he put us near Buna-Monowitz a subcamp of Auschwitz.![]() |
00:18:23 | And that man was either an owner or manager of the IG Farben Company.![]() |
00:18:31 | And the job that he would've done in the IG![]() |
00:18:34 | is to build the road or a part of a road![]() |
00:18:39 | with cobbled stones and sidewalks.![]() |
00:18:41 | And this, that was already in 1945 of course.![]() |
00:18:45 | And the war was already starting to sort of ease up a little bit.![]() |
00:18:49 | And then we used to, then the United States bombed IG at that time.![]() |
00:18:54 | They sent us over to some other place and bombed the IG factory.![]() |
00:18:59 | The rail mostly in the beginning, that led into the IG.![]() |
00:19:04 | And then of course at the end they knocked out the whole factory.![]() |
00:19:09 | So they put us on trains again.![]() |
00:19:12 | And we rode to, deeper into Germany.![]() |
00:19:16 | We went to Austria, we went to Czechoslovakia.![]() |
00:19:20 | And then the, ah the ah, the ah airforce got very aggressive.![]() |
00:19:28 | And they knocked out the whole rail.![]() |
00:19:30 | In some places they knocked out the lokomotive.![]() |
00:19:33 | And then at the end was, they divided us in different groups.![]() |
00:19:36 | I don't know how many in the march.![]() |
00:19:38 | About two hundred, a hundred I don't remember that.![]() |
00:19:41 | All I know we had two guards and two dogs.![]() |
00:19:45 | Regarding (???) we started marching.![]() |
00:19:47 | I think, I am not sur.., positive, but I'm, I will be investigating most of today in Flossenbürg.![]() |
00:19:54 | That is my first time back.![]() |
00:19:57 | So, the oth.., these gentlemen I have talked to, thought that was not the day that we arrived here.![]() |
00:20:03 | It was, we were doing the work![]() |
00:20:06 | We finally had to march in for a couple of miles to the camp.![]() |
00:20:11 | Because of the rail system, the trains didn't go and that's how far they went.![]() |
00:20:15 | And they knocked them out too, the lokomotive.![]() |
00:20:18 | So we wound up in Flossenbürg.![]() |
00:20:21 | And there, in Flossenbürg, which for me was just another camp, same bunks, the same food.![]() |
00:20:28 | The only thing, that we didn't have to go to a factory to work.![]() |
00:20:31 | I thought, this man would disagree with me.![]() |
00:20:34 | He said something else.![]() |
00:20:35 | He said, he stayed in ah, in, like in a, in a office or, or a factory of some kind.![]() |
00:20:43 | I remember only bundling up clothing.![]() |
00:20:46 | It was a story high of cloth from people who were wearing, who were murdered.![]() |
00:20:53 | And I don't know whether that was people only from Flossenbürg.![]() |
00:20:57 | Or was, was that the depot where they brought all the clothing in there?![]() |
00:21:00 | That I am not sure.![]() |
00:21:02 | But we were separating clothing.![]() |
00:21:04 | Bundling up coats, shoes, pants bundling up.![]() |
00:21:09 | And then they, I guess they shipped them back to Germany for recycling I guess.![]() |
00:21:14 | And I was in Flossenbürg maybe another six months or so.![]() |
00:21:18 | And then, the American army, we thought that was the Russian army,![]() |
00:21:23 | because, being close to the Czech border we wouldn't think that Americans would come there.![]() |
00:21:29 | But the American army was coming to liberate Flossenbürg.![]() |
00:21:34 | And three days before that, that the ah, the ah,![]() |
00:21:38 | German army or the Nazis or the, or the soldiers, they put us on trains again.![]() |
00:21:44 | They took us in, deeper into Germany.![]() |
00:21:47 | So, we were never got off the train, except in one spot,![]() |
00:21:50 | we went to Austria, Czechoslovakia, Bavaria, Germany.![]() |
00:21:54 | Just riding around![]() |
00:21:55 | Some of them had open trains.![]() |
00:21:57 | Mostly the women had open trains in those days already.![]() |
00:22:01 | You know, half open.![]() |
00:22:02 | And then we travelled through, then the ah, the ah Russian, the American airforce got very aggressive again.![]() |
00:22:11 | And they knocked out eventually the whole system.![]() |
00:22:13 | So they started to march us.![]() |
00:22:16 | How many of us was in the march, I don't really recall.![]() |
00:22:19 | But I know we were marching from middle of February to the 25th of April.![]() |
00:22:26 | Just marching, marching, marching.![]() |
00:22:28 | IV: Every day?![]() |
00:22:29 | HG: Then, ev.., the guards..![]() |
00:22:30 | IV: At night time or day time?![]() |
00:22:32 | HG: Mostly day time. Never marched us at night.![]() |
00:22:34 | IV: Yeah.![]() |
00:22:35 | HG: At night we stayed in the woods, covered up.![]() |
00:22:37 | Stayed there and the dogs were guarding us with the guards.![]() |
00:22:41 | And then, at the ah 24th of April, the day before liberation,![]() |
00:22:47 | before that, the guards didn't have any supplies with them either.![]() |
00:22:51 | They were hungry too.![]() |
00:22:52 | But they located a farm, while we were marching.![]() |
00:22:55 | And they used to go to the farm and have themselves a good meal.![]() |
00:22:59 | And the dogs I'm sure ate good {laughing}.![]() |
00:23:02 | And we were allowed only one raw potato.![]() |
00:23:05 | For the farmer, they gave us one raw potato and some water to drink.![]() |
00:23:10 | And we didn't have water f.., for months.![]() |
00:23:13 | It was two months at least.![]() |
00:23:15 | We were drinking water out of the creek.![]() |
00:23:18 | With anyway, it was 24th they brought us into a farm.![]() |
00:23:21 | It was the day before liberation.![]() |
00:23:24 | And all of a sudden they put us into this silo, where they keep the hay.![]() |
00:23:28 | And some animals were right there.![]() |
00:23:30 | And we thought that once they put us in there, they'll make, ah light a match and burn us all up.![]() |
00:23:37 | But they didn't.![]() |
00:23:38 | The dogs were outside.![]() |
00:23:39 | Two dogs were outside laying on the ground.![]() |
00:23:41 | Watching us, watching us being on the inside.![]() |
00:23:44 | But we were that time drenched wet from the April showers.![]() |
00:23:49 | We came in and we took our uniforms off.![]() |
00:23:52 | Striped uniforms.![]() |
00:23:53 | Because before we wore regular clothes for three years from home yet.![]() |
00:23:58 | Never clean, never, that's why the lice in the hair, we got infested there.![]() |
00:24:03 | But they, that was, we didn't get cleaned up until we got to Auschwitz.![]() |
00:24:08 | Where we got the number, we finally got our hair cut.![]() |
00:24:10 | We finally got a shower.![]() |
00:24:12 | When I arrived at ah Birkenau.![]() |
00:24:14 | But anyway that day, that day the 24th of April, we were in that place where the hay is, the silo.![]() |
00:24:22 | And in the morning, they woke us up early in the morning.![]() |
00:24:25 | We put back our clothes on.![]() |
00:24:26 | They were not quite dry.![]() |
00:24:28 | But, they were okay, they were not too bad.![]() |
00:24:31 | We didn't have any underwear or socks.![]() |
00:24:33 | All we had is the, the cap, the jacket, pants.![]() |
00:24:36 | Wooden-bottomed shoes with canvas stubs on them, to tie up.![]() |
00:24:42 | And that was our uniform.![]() |
00:24:44 | And then they always..., they woke us up early in the morning.![]() |
00:24:48 | And we only marched for two hours, near a wooded area.![]() |
00:24:51 | And it was pretty much close to Neunburg vorm Wald.![]() |
00:24:56 | In the woods in the area.![]() |
00:24:58 | And all of a sudden, while we saw a lot of commotion on a highway, a lot of equipment.![]() |
00:25:04 | But we didn't know whom the equipment was.![]() |
00:25:06 | Who did it belong to?![]() |
00:25:08 | Because we didn't know the marking on the equipment.![]() |
00:25:11 | So we thought it was German army.![]() |
00:25:12 | We didn't know who it was.![]() |
00:25:14 | But all of a sudden the two guards, while we were resting, all of a sudden disappeared.![]() |
00:25:20 | They took off with their dog.![]() |
00:25:22 | And they left us by ourselves.![]() |
00:25:24 | And after that we were kind of hu.., angry, because they left us.![]() |
00:25:28 | Anybody can kill us now.![]() |
00:25:30 | Although they would, probably were closest to kill us.![]() |
00:25:33 | But they were afraid to fire a gun.![]() |
00:25:36 | Because it makes a lot of noise.![]() |
00:25:38 | And those two guards didn't wanna get caught.![]() |
00:25:40 | I'm just guessing.![]() |
00:25:41 | These two guards didn't wanna get caught by the American army.![]() |
00:25:45 | So, they ran away from us.![]() |
00:25:48 | Probably got into a farm.![]() |
00:25:50 | Took their uniform off.![]() |
00:25:51 | Put civilian clothes on.![]() |
00:25:53 | They're just another person.![]() |
00:25:55 | And then, all of a sudden, while we sat there, a tank appeared from the main highway towards us.![]() |
00:26:01 | F.., by five, ten feet away.![]() |
00:26:04 | The hatch opened up.![]() |
00:26:05 | And this beautiful American soldier came out of the hatch, put his hands on his mouth.![]() |
00:26:11 | And he says: "We are Americans and all of you are free."![]() |
00:26:16 | IV: Did you understand english?![]() |
00:26:18 | HG: We had somebody in that group that spoke english.![]() |
00:26:22 | But we knew what "free" meant.![]() |
00:26:24 | And "we are Americans", "American" is almost an international word. "American."![]() |
00:26:30 | And I had a sister living in America.![]() |
00:26:32 | She came here before the war.![]() |
00:26:34 | Because I only gave you ah the description of five sisters.![]() |
00:26:39 | The one that went to America in 1937.![]() |
00:26:43 | So I knew, I had somebody still alive.![]() |
00:26:46 | And some day, with God's help, I will be in America.![]() |
00:26:49 | And once![]() |
00:26:50 | the soldier told us that, "We are Americans and you are free."![]() |
00:26:54 | I said to, to my, to my, to God I said: "Dear God.![]() |
00:26:57 | Thanks f.., thanks for saving our lives.![]() |
00:27:00 | But why did it take you so long?"![]() |
00:27:02 | Five years it took.![]() |
00:27:04 | I was locked up for five years.![]() |
00:27:06 | At the age of seventeen I was liberated.![]() |
00:27:09 | They tell me I weigh like seventy-five kilos or seventy-five pounds.![]() |
00:27:13 | I don't remember that, but I was told that.![]() |
00:27:16 | IV: So, what about your physical and also yo.., your mental condition after these five years?![]() |
00:27:22 | HG: Well, the..![]() |
00:27:23 | IV: About, during the time?![]() |
00:27:24 | HG: Well, maybe it helped because I was younger.![]() |
00:27:27 | And maybe it helped that I knew I had some good life ahead of me yet.![]() |
00:27:32 | Once I came to ah, once I come to America.![]() |
00:27:35 | I was looking forward to that.![]() |
00:27:37 | But while I was in Germany, I ran into, after liberation, and after we had enough food in our system,![]() |
00:27:44 | we started travelling on trains.![]() |
00:27:51 | And I took a ride to Bergen-Belsen.![]() |
00:27:51 | Looking for my m.., married sisters, the one they took away in October '42.![]() |
00:27:58 | I said, maybe they killed my mum,![]() |
00:28:01 | she was only fifty-four.![]() |
00:28:02 | But my sisters were young women.![]() |
00:28:04 | They had, one had three k.., ah girls, one, two boys.![]() |
00:28:08 | And I said: "Maybe they killed the cildren?![]() |
00:28:10 | Maybe the women are alive?"![]() |
00:28:11 | So I took, ah, a ride to Bergen-Belsen.![]() |
00:28:15 | And that was the British zone.![]() |
00:28:17 | They liberated ah Bergen-Belsen.![]() |
00:28:20 | I went in there.![]() |
00:28:21 | The soldier told me: "Only three days."![]() |
00:28:23 | And I told him, "I only need one day, only to look, to see."![]() |
00:28:27 | And I couldn't find anybody.![]() |
00:28:29 | Somehow I found this one woman, we were walking and she recognized me.![]() |
00:28:34 | And I recognized her.![]() |
00:28:35 | And it was that same cousin who helped me with the wound.![]() |
00:28:39 | And they, and they ah, in my slave labor camp in Poland.![]() |
00:28:44 | And she says: "I am going to Poland.![]() |
00:28:47 | Do you wanna go with me?"![]() |
00:28:49 | And we had a brother with the Polish Army.![]() |
00:28:51 | I had one in the Polish Army.![]() |
00:28:53 | But f.., I didn't know where he was of course.![]() |
00:28:56 | And she took a ride.![]() |
00:28:57 | And she went to Łódź, Poland.![]() |
00:28:59 | It was a Displaced Persons camp.![]() |
00:29:02 | And she looked for her brother Ramon.![]() |
00:29:04 | And he knew of my brother, Isakery, who was in the Polish army.![]() |
00:29:09 | He got caught by the German ah, Gestapo or SS, whoever it was.![]() |
00:29:13 | And they put him into the Wilno ghetto.![]() |
00:29:16 | He was in the Wilno ghetto.![]() |
00:29:18 | For a little while.![]() |
00:29:19 | Then he was liberated by the Russians.![]() |
00:29:21 | But then he made it into Germany.![]() |
00:29:23 | And then to Poland back.![]() |
00:29:25 | And he wound up in Łódź, Poland, in the Displaced Persons camp.![]() |
00:29:29 | So, she told him, that I was alive.![]() |
00:29:31 | And I was in a ca.., in a displaced person camp near Frankfurt am Main.![]() |
00:29:37 | It was called Zeilsheim.![]() |
00:29:39 | It was either run by the Jewish organization, the HIAS.![]() |
00:29:43 | Or maybe the UNRRA, they had a sign, UNRRA. U-N-R-R-A 503.![]() |
00:29:49 | The reason I remember that, because I have picture of it.![]() |
00:29:52 | I didn't bring it with me.![]() |
00:29:54 | So, anyway, so my brother found out about that.![]() |
00:29:57 | He came to me ah in a few weeks later.![]() |
00:30:01 | And he happened to know where my sister lives.![]() |
00:30:04 | Approximately in the, the Washington D. C. area.![]() |
00:30:09 | All I knew she was in America.![]() |
00:30:11 | But, so he came closer.![]() |
00:30:13 | And somehow we found our sister.![]() |
00:30:15 | And she sent papers for us.![]() |
00:30:17 | And the two of, of us, came together, emigrated to America in ninet.., ah we left ah in 1946.![]() |
00:30:27 | We came to America.![]() |
00:30:29 | '45 I was liberated, a year later, 46 of, of June I was in, ah in, in, in New York.![]() |
00:30:37 | IV: And then..![]() |
00:30:37 | CM: (???)![]() |
00:30:38 | IV: In the states, I think, you started a new life.![]() |
00:30:41 | Let's go back a little bit.![]() |
00:30:43 | Ah just to..![]() |
00:30:44 | HG: But they, I have to back up, because..![]() |
00:30:46 | IV: Okay.![]() |
00:30:46 | HG: What happened is, before the German army invaded my city![]() |
00:30:51 | in '39 of September, my Mum was very protective of us.![]() |
00:30:57 | There were three single girls and myself and the oldest of the brothers, the second oldest of the brothers.![]() |
00:31:04 | We went with a horse-drawn buggy on a farm.![]() |
00:31:08 | And we ate breakfast outside in the field.![]() |
00:31:11 | In front of the farmer's house.![]() |
00:31:12 | He gave us a piece of bread.![]() |
00:31:14 | And we used a tomato and we ate a piece tomato and some bread.![]() |
00:31:19 | Supposed to go in to get a glass of milk in there.![]() |
00:31:22 | Before we got it in to get the glass of milk, my brother saw a soldier, a Polish soldier.![]() |
00:31:28 | Pulling ah a bicycle, broken bicycle.![]() |
00:31:32 | And his, his uniform was a little ripped.![]() |
00:31:36 | And my brother stopped him.![]() |
00:31:38 | Somehow he knew his name.![]() |
00:31:39 | I don't know how he knew his name.![]() |
00:31:41 | Maybe it was a guard of the city.![]() |
00:31:43 | But he did have quite a few medals on him.![]() |
00:31:46 | And he called him by his first name.![]() |
00:31:49 | And he told him, he says: "Where're you running from?"![]() |
00:31:51 | He says: "I am running from the German army.![]() |
00:31:54 | I didn't wanna get caught to be a prisoner."![]() |
00:31:56 | In Polish to my brother.![]() |
00:31:58 | And he ran away in the opposite direction.![]() |
00:32:00 | My brother had an idea.![]() |
00:32:02 | He asked the soldier, can he run away with him?![]() |
00:32:05 | And he took off and left me by myself.![]() |
00:32:07 | Right there.![]() |
00:32:08 | And then I said: "He had to leave me.![]() |
00:32:12 | He is my big brother, my, my hero brother.![]() |
00:32:15 | He is gonna leave me with the three girls and my mum.![]() |
00:32:18 | You know, because the other one was the Polish army.![]() |
00:32:20 | IV: Yeah.![]() |
00:32:21 | HG: So, I was, I was the only man.![]() |
00:32:23 | IV: Yeah.![]() |
00:32:23 | HG: I didn't like that.![]() |
00:32:24 | I was chasing after, for a couple of miles, hiding under bushes.![]() |
00:32:29 | To see, where he disappeared.![]() |
00:32:31 | And he can.., but then he saw my head.![]() |
00:32:33 | He yelled back: "Go back to your mother.![]() |
00:32:35 | Go back to your mother."![]() |
00:32:36 | I didn't listen to him of course.![]() |
00:32:38 | But with the soldier turning around, he yelled at me to go back to my mother.![]() |
00:32:42 | I said: "Okay."![]() |
00:32:44 | And the next time I saw him, he was in America.![]() |
00:32:48 | He escaped to Wilno, Lithuania.![]() |
00:32:52 | And somehow he got in touch, in touch with my sister in America.![]() |
00:32:57 | And they, ah I understand that they had a Japanese ambassador in Wilno Lithuania.![]() |
00:33:05 | By the name of Sugihara.![]() |
00:33:08 | He was helping some Jews.![]() |
00:33:10 | They all took Chassidic Jews.![]() |
00:33:12 | With false passports.![]() |
00:33:14 | And he got them out of, he got them out of Wilno, Lithuania.![]() |
00:33:18 | And they sent them like to Manchuria.![]() |
00:33:20 | And from Manchuria they travelled wherever they wanted to go.![]() |
00:33:24 | Or whoever, the relatives...![]() |
00:33:26 | He asked to pick them up or what ever.![]() |
00:33:30 | So, when I came to America with the other brother, we were looking for my sister to come pick us up.![]() |
00:33:36 | Well, there was a man. He came.![]() |
00:33:39 | And he got closer to me.![]() |
00:33:40 | I said: "Oh, that is our brother Dave."![]() |
00:33:43 | I said: "How did you get here?"![]() |
00:33:45 | He says: "Oh, I came to America in 1941."![]() |
00:33:49 | Then he started, so I told him: "If you would have been a good brother {laughing},![]() |
00:33:54 | you would have let me run away with you.![]() |
00:33:56 | And I would have been in America in 1941, too."![]() |
00:33:59 | So he started telling me how much trouble that he had {laughing},![]() |
00:34:03 | while he was in Lithuania.![]() |
00:34:05 | I said: "Well, that's okay.![]() |
00:34:07 | That's all right.![]() |
00:34:08 | You're still my brother."![]() |
00:34:09 | We hugged. We got on the train.![]() |
00:34:11 | They took us to Washington, D. C. to see my sister.![]() |
00:34:15 | And we all lived with my sister for a while.![]() |
00:34:20 | IV: Ah, so, strange stories.![]() |
00:34:24 | {???} so., what..![]() |
00:34:25 | HG: Thank you.![]() |
00:34:26 | IV: ..happened to one family. And so..![]() |
00:34:29 | HG: And so, God was watching over me.![]() |
00:34:31 | I came here.![]() |
00:34:32 | I raised a beautiful family.![]() |
00:34:35 | And I came with nothing.![]() |
00:34:38 | With nothing.![]() |
00:34:39 | In America they say, on, the, in America that you can do that.![]() |
00:34:43 | You can become whoever you want to, if you're willing to work, willing to work hard.![]() |
00:34:49 | And make something out of yourself.![]() |
00:34:53 | IV: So, but so starting this new life, what about the past?![]() |
00:34:56 | Did you try to forget it?![]() |
00:34:58 | HG: Well.., and I never forget it.![]() |
00:35:00 | I never forget it.![]() |
00:35:01 | In the beginning you were dreaming every night.![]() |
00:35:04 | I was black and blue sometimes from my wife.![]() |
00:35:07 | She would hit me at night time: "You were, you're dreaming, you're dreaming."![]() |
00:35:10 | Wake me up.![]() |
00:35:12 | But, since I am, I am a volunteer for quite a long time about fifteen years or more![]() |
00:35:18 | at the United States Holocaust Memorial Museum.![]() |
00:35:22 | And I speak to audiences there.![]() |
00:35:25 | I tell my story just like I told you this story.![]() |
00:35:28 | And a, field trips come.![]() |
00:35:30 | And many, I don't say too many, I have run across quite a few a German young people that come.![]() |
00:35:38 | To the museum.![]() |
00:35:40 | And sometimes after they get through viewing they come down and they cry.![]() |
00:35:46 | And they ask: "Do you have ah survivors?"![]() |
00:35:49 | And the information tells them, there is a survivor at that desk.![]() |
00:35:54 | And every day somebody, two people sit at that desk.![]() |
00:35:58 | The survivors.![]() |
00:35:59 | Whether they are from Russia, whether they are from Poland.![]() |
00:36:02 | No matter who they are.![]() |
00:36:03 | And they start talking to the person.![]() |
00:36:07 | And sometimes we tell them: "You don't need to cry.![]() |
00:36:10 | It was not your fault.![]() |
00:36:12 | You were too young.![]() |
00:36:13 | Your great-grandfather, maybe, I will never forgive.![]() |
00:36:17 | But you and your mum and your parents.![]() |
00:36:20 | You're too young.![]() |
00:36:21 | I have nothing against you.![]() |
00:36:23 | You didn't do it."![]() |
00:36:25 | IV: And you also..![]() |
00:36:26 | HG: So that gets out of my system.![]() |
00:36:28 | Because I don't have a, some of this survivors keep everything bundled up.![]() |
00:36:32 | And eventually, and they explode.![]() |
00:36:35 | Something happens to them and they loose their mind.![]() |
00:36:38 | Well, I know some of them, who did that.![]() |
00:36:41 | But, like I say, the group that goes out to talk![]() |
00:36:44 | we are about eighty of us at the Holocaust Museum.![]() |
00:36:48 | Every day there is somebody at that desk, two people.![]() |
00:36:52 | If somebody wants to talk to us and we, most of the time they come in and wanna take pictures with you.![]() |
00:36:57 | The audience, whether it is German.., I even ran across a German High School Gymnasium.![]() |
00:37:03 | They said they went to Auschwitz recently, a few days ago.![]() |
00:37:07 | I was there.![]() |
00:37:08 | And the and the guard, the woman that was taking them,![]() |
00:37:12 | ah as a group, was sitting with me on the bench.![]() |
00:37:15 | And we started talking.![]() |
00:37:17 | And while the, the children was sitting on the grass area, resting.![]() |
00:37:21 | So she found out about me.![]() |
00:37:25 | Well, yeah, of course I told her.![]() |
00:37:26 | She asked me where I was from.![]() |
00:37:28 | And I told her that I am a survivor in the Holocaust.![]() |
00:37:31 | She said: "Can you do me a favour?"![]() |
00:37:33 | I said: "Sure. What do you need?"![]() |
00:37:35 | She said: "I bring the kids over here.![]() |
00:37:36 | Can you talk to them?"![]() |
00:37:38 | They came over to me.![]() |
00:37:40 | And I started telling them the story.![]() |
00:37:42 | Some of them would tear eye.![]() |
00:37:44 | Mostly the girls.![]() |
00:37:46 | And there was some boys and girls.![]() |
00:37:49 | Just, just about few days ago I did that.![]() |
00:37:52 | So, maybe that is the reason I get it out of my system...![]() |
00:37:56 | And that doesn't affect me.![]() |
00:37:57 | Some of the pe.., like I say, do not talk.![]() |
00:38:00 | They will not talk.![]() |
00:38:01 | They can't talk.![]() |
00:38:02 | They break down, too.![]() |
00:38:04 | IV: Yeah. But in the beginning, when you got your children and your family,![]() |
00:38:08 | you did talk about your, tell your, to tell your sons...![]() |
00:38:11 | HG: I have never told my kids until they were older.![]() |
00:38:14 | IV: Yeah.![]() |
00:38:14 | HG: I remember they finally found out about it in 1978.![]() |
00:38:20 | There was a documentary on NBC playing.![]() |
00:38:24 | And they played, it was called, the documentary was called Holocaust.![]() |
00:38:29 | IV: Oh no.![]() |
00:38:29 | HG: So they broke it down to three segments.![]() |
00:38:33 | Ah every other night over..., just break it up.![]() |
00:38:37 | And my, I used to tell when they were little, my, especially my daughter.![]() |
00:38:41 | She wants to know my.., I said: "That is my telephone number from the store {laughing}."![]() |
00:38:45 | I would not tell her.![]() |
00:38:46 | But then, 1978, they were already older.![]() |
00:38:49 | They knew what it was.![]() |
00:38:52 | About that time I went around to talk already at that time.![]() |
00:38:56 | IV: But now it is the first time you are coming to Flossenbürg?![]() |
00:38:59 | HG: Yes, I have a reason for that.![]() |
00:39:01 | I was to busy in my store.![]() |
00:39:02 | I was in the dry-cleaning business.![]() |
00:39:05 | And I couldn't get out.![]() |
00:39:06 | And my wife was not feeling well, too much always, to be traveling.![]() |
00:39:11 | And then I had, the children were little.![]() |
00:39:13 | I didn't, and I didn't feel like leaving them alone.![]() |
00:39:16 | But since, I am eighty-six years old, I said, "you better do it now, or you never do it again."![]() |
00:39:22 | So I took it up on myself to do it.![]() |
00:39:24 | They agreed to come travel with me.![]() |
00:39:27 | So I decided to come here.![]() |
00:39:29 | IV: Mhm {confirming}. And now, what about your, what about your feelings, your emotions?![]() |
00:39:33 | HG: Feeling this, well, it affects me, but I said, I almost look back at the bright side of the story.![]() |
00:39:39 | I said: "I'm alive.![]() |
00:39:40 | And accomplished a lot." I said.![]() |
00:39:42 | While I was here, I cannot bring them back, the people who were murdered.![]() |
00:39:46 | I can't bring them back.![]() |
00:39:48 | So I'm, I'm happy as I get along with my family.![]() |
00:39:52 | I got three sons and a daughter.![]() |
00:39:54 | I got twelve grandkids, six great granddaughters.![]() |
00:39:58 | One of them is a little boy.![]() |
00:40:00 | So, I, I raised ah I, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm good, in good shape.![]() |
00:40:04 | I can't walk too good.![]() |
00:40:05 | But that is all right.![]() |
00:40:07 | But so far, I'm okay.![]() |
00:40:08 | IV: Mhm {confirming}. So, one last question, let's come, come, going back to Flossenbürg.![]() |
00:40:13 | Ah when you told your story, you said, one camp was like the other.![]() |
00:40:18 | So, are there any special..![]() |
00:40:19 | HG: Well, when I came in the barrack,![]() |
00:40:20 | what I ment is the barracks're the same.![]() |
00:40:22 | The barracks were the same.![]() |
00:40:24 | Three people to a barrack.![]() |
00:40:26 | The same food.![]() |
00:40:27 | A slice of bread in the morning.![]() |
00:40:29 | A little black Ersatz-coffee.![]() |
00:40:31 | And then we work for ten hours in the factories.![]() |
00:40:34 | And then they gave us cabbage water, cabbage soup.![]() |
00:40:37 | I remember, that I had a spoon in the, tied up to my pants.![]() |
00:40:41 | I never took it off.![]() |
00:40:42 | Because it was nothing to spoon.![]() |
00:40:45 | Just drink out this bowl of soup. That's all.![]() |
00:40:48 | In every camp I stayed, that the, the, the diet never changed.![]() |
00:40:51 | Except in one camp.![]() |
00:40:53 | It might have been here.![]() |
00:40:54 | The Red Cross came one day.![]() |
00:40:56 | And I don't know whether this, the Red Cross was a German Red Cross or whether international?![]() |
00:41:02 | Or whether they were Polish, that I don't know.![]() |
00:41:05 | We could not talk to them.![]() |
00:41:06 | The German officers were talking, discussing.![]() |
00:41:09 | But they made us clean up,![]() |
00:41:11 | the area real good.![]() |
00:41:12 | They brought in two goals to, for us to play soccer.![]() |
00:41:17 | And, and that day, we didn't get any cabbage water soup.![]() |
00:41:21 | We got cream of wheat.![]() |
00:41:23 | And I, I know for sure that these ah, ah red cross people that were there, were observing us.![]() |
00:41:31 | That we don't look like that we get fat.![]() |
00:41:33 | Cream of wheat everyday.![]() |
00:41:35 | The way we looked.![]() |
00:41:37 | The next day back to cabbage water.![]() |
00:41:40 | And I think it was Flossenbürg.![]() |
00:41:44 | IV: So, but Flossenbürg was the last camp you have been?![]() |
00:41:48 | And it was very close to the end of the war?![]() |
00:41:50 | HG: True..![]() |
00:41:50 | IV: So, was it more, more crowded, more difficult, more dirty?![]() |
00:41:54 | More dying people than compared to the other camps?![]() |
00:41:58 | HG: Well, Flossenbürg, I remember they had ah a nice bathroom.![]() |
00:42:02 | They didn't have that bathroom with that long seats![]() |
00:42:05 | I don't think, with the holes.![]() |
00:42:07 | There is like a regular, if, if you go to urinate the, ah the wall thing, to normal...![]() |
00:42:12 | And all the other camps we didn't have that.![]() |
00:42:15 | That is the only thing about Flossenbürg that I remember.![]() |
00:42:18 | And it was some way to wash your hands, too.![]() |
00:42:20 | No soap, but you could wash your hands.![]() |
00:42:25 | But I didn't see all of Flossenbürg.![]() |
00:42:27 | I arrived yesterday and I just mingled with the group that's in, under the tent.![]() |
00:42:33 | IV: Yeah.![]() |
00:42:34 | HG: To see, if I recognize anybody.![]() |
00:42:36 | Today we're hoping we gonna go into the office or library or the museum whatever they have there.![]() |
00:42:41 | To see, if my records are there.![]() |
00:42:44 | IV: Yeah, and so, perhaps some memories will come back, seeing..![]() |
00:42:47 | HG: Perhaps, yes..![]() |
00:42:48 | IV: Old pictures..![]() |
00:42:49 | HG: Because..![]() |
00:42:49 | IV: Or the area..![]() |
00:42:51 | HG: Like we went back to Auschwitz, before I came here.![]() |
00:42:54 | IV: Yeah.![]() |
00:42:54 | HG: We went to Birkenau, Auschwitz.![]() |
00:42:56 | Some of the barracks, you know, they would, I, I remember the barracks.![]() |
00:43:00 | I don't know exactly where they were.![]() |
00:43:03 | But they were there.![]() |
00:43:04 | I remember seeing the, whether the guards was sitting on top of there.![]() |
00:43:08 | They're guarding the area with a, where the ah electric w.., ah fences were around.![]() |
00:43:14 | And then that was roped up.![]() |
00:43:15 | You can't go behind the fences.![]() |
00:43:17 | That kind of thing.![]() |
00:43:17 | Yeah, it comes back to you.![]() |
00:43:19 | But I didn't see anything here yet.![]() |
00:43:23 | IV: Okay. So, I just can say: "Thank you for sharing..![]() |
00:43:27 | HG: You, you're welcome.![]() |
00:43:28 | IV: ..your experience."![]() |
00:43:29 | HG: And by the way I will tell you.![]() |
00:43:30 | I was interviewed by a German television station around,![]() |
00:43:35 | I think it was easter time, when we had, the museum had the twentieth anniversary, since they opened.![]() |
00:43:43 | IV: Yeah. The Holocaust Museum?![]() |
00:43:44 | HG: Yes, the Jewish..,United States Holocaust Memorial Museum.![]() |
00:43:48 | That is the right title.![]() |
00:43:49 | And so, a German crew came up to my appartment.![]() |
00:43:53 | They were two, two men and a woman from the German television station.![]() |
00:43:57 | That is stationed in the Washington area.![]() |
00:44:00 | They came to meet me for almost two hours.![]() |
00:44:03 | And then was, you know, that by the time you get through,![]() |
00:44:06 | they edited, you know, ah like a little, because she send me the, the tape.![]() |
00:44:11 | IV: Yeah.![]() |
00:44:12 | HG: The disc.![]() |
00:44:13 | IV: Yeah.![]() |
00:44:13 | HG: Two seconds. And I said, they interviewed me for two hours.![]() |
00:44:16 | That was more than that.![]() |
00:44:18 | But on television, and by the time, this television was shown in, in Germany.![]() |
00:44:24 | On the evening news.![]() |
00:44:26 | Now whether you can follow that up,![]() |
00:44:28 | to see, if I'm telling you the truth {laughing}.![]() |
00:44:30 | Mayb.., maybe you can find out something.![]() |
00:44:33 | IV: So, but this time, you will get a DVD of..![]() |